We ask our loyal friends to bear with us. This is not an easy post to write. In fact, it’s down right near preposterous. But here goes.
We agree with Tom Friedman. It’s time to walk away from Israel, the Palestinians and the Arabs. Or at least plan for it. The Israeli Right would welcome American disengagement as the fruits of their diplomatic obstruction and geographic expansionism. We’re under no illusions that Bibi et al. want Obama to leave them alone to continue their failed MachtPolitik. If only Obama and Clinton could show the political spine to stand down Israel, withstand domestic pressure before 2010 and then devote the resources necessary to give Palestinian statehood a viable shot. Without it, when push comes to shove it’s better to walk away from the pretense of engagement.
The Stiftung finds no joy noting Friedman essentially argues Obama go hands off ala the Warlord. Haven’t Kagan et al. always fantasized about this outcome? But Friedman is correct (even if inadvertantly) that a feckless engagement is worse than a reassessment. Friedman essentially asks ‘What would Baker do?’ We know Baker knew how to bring the hammer down. Can this Administration?
OK. There, it’s out. Whew. We’ve been walking into the Bunker walls today feeling disoriented posting that we agreed with Friedman although perhaps for different reasons. If the whole 1,000 monkeys and typewriters thing is true, those poor chimps. Chained and typing beginning in 1997 to get this one column.
Simian serfs just know that your ghostwriting even one Friedman column is a gift to mankind. We salute you.
DrLeoStrauss says
The Chinese deflate the Friedman balloon. He’s dim enough to say ‘thank you’, too.
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/06/chinese-tabloid-finds-tom-friedmans-advice-china-weirdly-amusing/38587/
Dr Leo Strauss says
Robert Malley, former Clintonista assistant for Arab-Israeli Affairs, is suggesting ‘Hey, go! The State Solution Has Got To Go!’ http://www.cfr.org/publication/20688/ One does wonder if he got clearance from Max Boot before going public.
Comment says
Impenetrable arrogance is sometimes funny
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6907681.ece
Comment says
The war with Hezb should be a warning sign that Israel’s military advantage will slip over the coming years as high quality weapons spread democratically thru the region. What good is a Merkava tank if it can be rocketed to pieces? Yeah, it sort of looks cool – It’s a pretty cool looking tank, but it’s vulnerable. Also – it came clear that Hezb had maintained secure \communication. That was what that mini civil conflict was about last year.
Alex says
If you follow the tone of Israeli comment about 2006, there’s a worrying trend; after the war they were quite frank about their failures and Hezbollah’s adoption of a viable tactical/operational package to resist them while keeping their main force in being to pursue their strategic goals of power in Lebanon. Since late ’08, though, there’s a sort of denialist swing – we flippin’ murdered them, as the then England cricket coach said after failing to beat Zimbabwe. Airpower machismo.
Comment says
Leo, MY makes a Turtledove allusion:
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/11/war-plan-red.php
Dr Leo Strauss says
re Yglesias, etc.
Just further proof that one can have no idea at all about something, Google for 20 minutes and then blog with authority. Sometimes when we read stuff like that we almost feel ‘what the hell’ and the site here has no purpose – self parody is everywhere (triumphant). We would then be free to pursue a dream to use this site for Good, and create the ultimate Snuggies e-commerce experience. Eat your heart out Gustav Metzger.
Comment says
No, we think Friedman is tactically pivoting his ‘brand’ – He does this from time to time because it gives him props with Arab big shots. One thing we do think Israel needs is a strategy of face saving when it decides to do what it really will need to do, in the not so distant future. Luckily, for Israel – with so many savage and backward enemies nearby they can always feel proud to live in a (mostly) free and rich country with great schools and hospitals and scientists and a powerful protector. We do sympathize with their feelings when aubsurd dictatorial nations castigate them and get worldwide credibility. But at the same time, this conflict they have with the Arabs is causing so much trouble for the world and causing the Israelis themselves to do things they probably do not really want to do , in their hearts. So time to make peace or just spread some love in that part of the world.
Hunter says
Yeah, that’s sort of what I thought. We ‘should’ (credibly) threaten to end military aid, but for myriad reasons including those above, we won’t. Of course, part of the reason we won’t is because the old CW holds so clearly that Israel’s interests and our own in the ME are inextricably bound to the point of indistinguishability (plus the Jews > Muslims idea held by the racists, but that’s neither here nor there wrt Friedman). As Friedman expends so much energy making sure he’s in the exact center of the neoliberal CW, I was just curious if he even recognizes what he’s apparently committing himself to in that article. Probably not.
Comment says
Amazing
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/09/goldman-reject/
Comment says
Incidentally == Under Bush. the US lost a tremendous amount of relative power – Just a huge shift in power away from the US happened under Bush – Shows what happens when you spend a trillion dollars bombing a desert
Comment says
Some corrective to a fav neocon fantasy – As we have noted many at NRO and other neoconish mags have fanasties that Europe is basically a crime ridden dump current being overrun by wolves and jihadists. Wussies like Kagan right about Venus etc and Perle, from his redoubt in the south of France, calls for boycotting French wine (while enjoying his Burgundy)
Some of them actually believe this crap – they think Frenchman envy the health care system in Mississippi and that Germans envy Alabama’s business friendlt regulatory environment – Or that many a Dutchman would like to follow the prison model in South Carolina.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/221614
Comment says
TV show pitch – \:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/ensign_no_longer_at_c_street_report.php#more
Comment says
Ofcourse we’d see some serious moral relativity if ever did the sweet wind kiss the tree tops and Dick Cheney, David Addington, John Babyface Yoo, and Jay “let this cup pass from me” Bybee were indicted, arrested, and frog marched into the brig for making torture an instrument of national policy.
Comment says
We don’t really know what Brooks is talking about in his column about Major Hasaan. Everyone we know regards Hasaan as an evil hateful man. But there is this pseudo narrative factory in neoconland that likes to pretend a substantial chunck of soft america is over in cubicle c extoling moral relativity. It’s more psychological projection from nihilists, if you ask us.
Comment says
We don’t wish to seem to make light of mental illness – which we take very seriously. But it seems David Brooks column has become a cry for help.
“We’re all born late. We’re born into history that is well under way. We’re born into cultures, nations and languages that we didn’t choose. On top of that, we’re born with certain brain chemicals and genetic predispositions that we can’t control. We’re thrust into social conditions that we detest. Often, we react in ways we regret even while we’re doing them.” (Brooks)
Comment says
Re: Kessler vs. Boot – we have to think about that – there’s some good comedy there. But we could blow it if we did not think it thru,
Dr Leo Strauss says
Excellent points about Carter. Indeed, the attempted smear on him in one sense was free publicity. Although it took a psychological and spiritual toll on him but more importantly others who stayed silent thinking if this can happen to an ex president (of the Middle East Accords no less) . . .
Yeah the Boot and Kessler debate would be hilarious – each ostentatiously emphasizing their respect as a signal that both would obey the rules of the game.
Curious to see how the Bibi meeting finished up and echoes.
Comment says
We also think Dowd uses fictional characters in her columns – Ex. when she told of her friend saying Obama’s fitness is resented by working class people – She replayed that her friend at the WSJ had some prole tell her that “she ain’t voting for no bean pole skinny guy”
The whole thing was invented – the over the top working class grammer was a giveawy – It was just another example of masochistic elite liberal columnis making up s*** to script their play. They wanted Obama to lose saw they good gloat over the slobs who voted against him for the wrong reasons.
It was very obvious when Dowd’s friend (Amy Chozick?)defended herself by showing the source of the quote – and it was obvious that she wrote that quote herself (or Dowd did) on some message board and then cited it – It was also so obvious, but so petty and small
Comment says
Just a guess – we think Friedman’s “Jordanian friend” is a fiction – just like the charming Arab cabbies that populate anecdoteland in his books.
Comment says
Boot – When a chickenhawk hatches an egghead –
Comment says
Imagine Max Boot getting into a bar fight with Ronald Kessler when they argue over who is cooler – retired soldiers who become mercenaries vs. retired Bureau special agents who become private detectives.
Comment says
re Boot’s cartoonish militarism – we meant to say we “know more” – Our new keyboard has increased our typo rate above prior too high levels.
– Re reading Boot’s piece – we are just amazed that someone like him -(obviously smart) could write something so stupid. When smart people say stupid things, it’s warning sign.
Max and the mercenaries – lol
Comment says
“Aren’t firms like KBR, DynCorp, Triple Canopy, and Blackwater models of the kind of entrepreneurial firms he normally trumpets if they’re producing widgets or microchips?”
Max Boot on Friedman
Leo – pretty telling that Boot is implicly dismissive of value added goods like microchips – comparing them unfavorably to the thick neck goon squad contractors. Just goes to show what happens when an egghead like Boot becomes a jocksnifffer for mil-types.
We do not have the slightest doubt that we no more actual soldiers and sailors who were actually in this war and others , than Mr. Boot. We do happen to know some people who know him in CFR and testify to his overall geeky good-guyness. But his military fantasy life – is all seems like psychological compensation – Sort of like Michael Barone- a fav target of Alex’s scorn.
Comment says
As an aside – we were somewhat surprised to find Carter’s novel about the American Revolution in the south to be pretty good. But since the British military establishment refrained from attacking his unflattering treatment of redcoats – no one bothered to buy the book. IT’s sales were up there with his biography of Miss Lillian. His Israel book would have gone unread if people followed the British example of ignoring it.
Comment says
We always found Jimmy Carter to be annoying – but the mau mauing of him was a tactical error made clear when that decidely ungreat communicator managed to defend himself and advance his case at Brandeis and get a standing ovation from the students. It was almost like Obama getting an ovation from Notre Dame after an ill fated ND alum attempt to ban him from ND campus honors. In both cases – elderly right wingers saw the ground shift away from them as a new generation reframes the debate. Carter even managed to be clever when he defended the title of his book by saying it applied to the west bank, not to Israel itself – which was actually quite the unspoken point of the attacks against him to begin with. Better advise to stick to attacking Buchanan, a more plausible culprit.
Comment says
Obama is rightly and wrongly viewed with suspicioun by much of conservative-in-denial leadership re Israel lobbying. It’s not so much a change in actual policy – they fear Obama may be sincere. If Obama ever really brought about a comprehensive plan, we’d advise him to hire Rahm’s other brothers too as pre-emptive defense positioning.
Comment is pro Israel and by most world standards Obama is too. In fact, compared to Europe and most of Asia, Obama is in the tank with Bibi and his wingers. But just as we reject the oft redneckish tude in the USA that equates patriotism with unchecked love of war and saving face obsesssion of not admitting errors, we think Israel should be criticised for what seem like obvious errors starting in 1982 in Lebanon and the nature of the spying here etc.
We don’t know about that Goldstone report that Congress — in a test of faith and trial – had to condemn. But we don’t doubt the sincerity of the guy who risked much to write it up. We felt bad for him when we saw him on tv – obviously personally hurt by the dishonest invective thrown at him.
Dr Leo Strauss says
Quite right that direct linkage is domestic political suicide, especially for a Democrat. And thus merely a quaint notion. The Stiftung for a variety of reasons is immune to the Neocon/AIPAC anti-Semite mau mau and would happily crush them on C-SPAN should they attempt it. And we are generally pro-Israel as a state and people should they act accordingly. They’re entitled to live in security.
But yes, you called it — linkage would take more fortitude than waiting on Max Baucus.
Comment says
In fact, when we seem to agree with Friedman, we usually just assume were wrong, and like George Costanza, take the opposite position from our original one.
When Friedman talks about Israel, it’s like Bonfire of the Vanities goes to Shea stadium for an Emerson, Lake, and Palmer concert. Make sure to bring your own Whiskey.
Comment says
Friedman lately reminds me of the shiney wax on the floor of my sailboat boat, when I go out on someone elses motorboat (sans harpoon) – It always ends up smelling like microwave pizza. Agree?
Comment says
Our opinion is that Israel will have to abandon the whole settlement thing in that not too distant future. Demographic and economic reality will force them to do so more than anything Obama can do.We think Obama has the politics about right – maingtaining his high poll ratings – while driving the wingers batshit over symbolic slights – Were he to attempt to do what Bush pere did (threatend to withhold aid), it might work, but it will come at great cost – So that kind of risk should only be taken at the proper time when a plan is in place.
We think we disagree with you and Friedman – the pretense of engagement is admittedly a bit of a fraud, but useful in our oriental setting.
Comment says
Though we think the spirt of linking aid to compliance is wholsome and sensible, we think it poses all sorts of political downsides – You’d be like a sailor arguing with Neptune over his waves and sea patterns.
Dr Leo Strauss says
We’ve long advocated direct linkage in military and economic subsidies to political compliance. Back to the days when a bloated Sharon sat before John Tower and SASC after the first invasion of Lebanon and all but spat on the U.S. as a spent loser (the Israelis refused to let Americans inspect captured Soviet tech).
Your point is well taken re having blood on our hands for the atrocities et al. even if we withdrew ala 2006 in Lebanon. If American presence is narrow band – i.e., abandoning the pretense that we have the political will to really move the ball forward towards a viable two state solution – and focused on policing the extremes of Likudist adventurism? That would make sense morally, ethically and geo strategically. But it is perhaps still sophistry because if the U.S. had that will then it arguably wouldn’t be preening in empty photo ops for ‘the process’ in general.
We come out where you started – we would be co-conspirators to arm and subsidize Israeli expansionism while walking away. Direct linkage.
As an aside Friedman is on a roll — Max Boot is going after him in Commentary. (Hat tip a friend):
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/boot/154321
Hunter says
I want to know whether Friedman or you would consider ending all military aid to Israel a part of this ‘disengagement’. Because it seems to me that we should only leave Bibi et al. alone if we quit subsidizing the macht in their politik.