Kissinger and lie in the same sentence–without a negative–say it aint so.
Palin so good looking? Maybe I am jaded in LA. Overall each preached to his respective choir. The undecided/swing voters probably were not swayed–at least objectively.
Last point – we may be wrong, but we think
McCain’s visably annoyed ‘tude saying
that we should not admit to attacking
Pakistan (unless he decides to) has
limited resonance with the Hoagland-types
But it just reenforces McCain as wannabe
secret warmonger but hypocrite image
to the rest of the world
McCain conceded the possibility of attacking
Pak area – Obama was just up front
The FP community may give McCain points
but most people will side with
Obama
Pod has turned Commentary into a lightweight read – He adds zero to the intellectual defense of Israel and we’d guess he is a net negative to Israel because he offers embarassing arguments on her behalf – Not always. But very often.
The second time we watched the debate was on c-span with the split screen – McCain smiled uncomfortably several times and snorted and laughed at the wrong times.
If Tweety hated McCain (which he may as time goes on) he could edit it just like he did with Gore.
Obviously Kissinger will lie tomorrow to help McCain, but the documentary proof is so overwhleming in Obama’s favor —
We are somewhat puzzled that many pundits are missing how important McCain’s weak bailout response will undo a potential GOP insurgent victory on the bailout. Maybe we are too tunneled.
So McCain brags about his friendship with Kissinger for 35 years – hmmm – That is old.
People respect Kissinger – but they think he is a liar too – so tomorrow when he lies for McCain, it will only help Obama and it will erase Obama weaknesses.
“But it seems to me, based on what has actually been happening in this country over the past 96 hours, the only person who was really at risk in this debate was McCain. Since he said he wouldn’t leave Washington until there was a bailout deal, and then he did, and since his presence on Thursday itself became a controversial subject, a bad night for him — especially on the economy — might have been fatal. Instead, he put on a credible performance on the economy, and a powerful and commanding one on foreign policy.
The McCain on stage tonight is the McCain we’ve seen since the summer of 2007 — a candidate who seems able to draw on reserves of energy and focus just at those moments when he seems to have lost his footing and might be about to tumble off a cliff. In this respect, doing well in this debate was actually far more important for McCain than it was for Obama; his campaign was on the line, and Obama’s wasn’t.
In that respect, the existential respect, McCain really was the winner, because he lives to fight another day.”
We recently heard Palin on the radio and she was bad – but she is so good looking that it’s hard to notice on TV how bad she sounds.
We just saw Rudy cackling – which he does (watch the debate on split screen on c-span and McCain smiles every time he is pissed – It does not work any better than HRCs laugh) when he is lying. So we are confident our bias for Obama – which is not unconditional – is not confusing us. We think Obama gained tonight.
Yeah, he screwed up not capitalizing on the bailout brouhaha.
I think Pat believes he won, AND he loves the Klondike Cutie.
Prediction: Palin will bomb, or at least look plain silly in the debate. There is way too much low/high expectations being set for Biden/Palin. By the end, the audience will be sympathizing with Biden for having to be so careful.
Prediction: Obama won – and he will win the polls and spin – But when the Klondike Cutey whacks the Hairplug Pitbull, the media will swing back to McCain and it will be up to the last debate.
But recall – Kerry won the first debate HUGE and he won the second debate ok – But he lost
This is the opposite of what pundits say now
Gore destroyed Bush in debate one – but the media turned on him and put him on the defensive in debate two and then he lost the spin for both debates
I saw the IED false intel claim a while back. But Iran funds Hez, etc.; why would they not be behind IEDs?
Russia has been installing sympathetic puppets in neighboring states, they’re no innocents. But I don’t think we should go crazy defending Georgia, and I don’t think Europe will vote them in because of energy concerns.
Did anyone notice McCain’s tie–was ita subliminal cue to provoke race. At least on my HDTV it looked like black and white stripes. I was thinking the power red was de rigeur.
Both had cringe inducing moments. Obama had many openings for attack that went unanswered.
Did not McCain vote against a bill for Vet benefits recently?
The Iran/IED link is also questionable and harks back to WMD intel.
And the same line on Russia’s aggression against Georgia–was weak.
It’s funny to watch AL Hunt et al say McCain won on foreign policy points – Now for all we know McCain may have won with viewers, but Obama won on points – Unless, we missed that.
But the pundits are worried abou their own interest.
Btw = no one noticed Gore’s signs the first few nights after the debate – it was only when Tweety and Fox fixated on it
Watching the establishment pundits on Charlie Rose – Hoagland tried to throw McCain some sage bones, but his heart isn’ in it – Byron York, who we always thought of as a phony is trying and failing to hold Obama’s collegiality against him.
Halperin says Obama won – so he is a reliable barometer of establishment spin and he does not like Obama – but he sees it in his interest to be in favor of Obama on the debate.
The mains reason we think Obama won is due to the available repeat lines over the next week. McCain sort of sighed like Gore a few times – acvtually snorted – will Tweety notice?
But there were no classic Obama gaffes and as the news cycle moves back to Wall St you will see McCain’s sheepish Yeah vote reply
McCain just lost it with his dis of Obama’s knowledge and judgement – He should not have articulated that belief. Obama just seems respectful but firm – and smarter.
Pakistan is a wash – Obama probably wins on points – But does it matter? Pakistan is a looming disaster for either man – But it is good to see Obama softpeddle his prior hawkish bluster at CFR – Did Obama just mudddle his bracelet name? Or are we dreaming – That will be the Fox clip.
McCain is on the record being pro Mushareff, so Obama better take him to school on Pakistan – McCain has a cocky look on his face – so Obama should really press him on Pakistan and make him angry.
My favorite line:
“John McCain had a remarkably bad day yesterday. It began with a desperate conference call in which his pollster tried to bluster away an ABC/W Post poll that showed him dropping 9 points back of Obama. It ended with David Letterman juggling his ripped off balls on the air while offering a squirming Keith Olbermann a bite.”
Anon says
Here is Frank Luntz focus group:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wup4nsIWe8A
Lunzt did not please many Fox-ites – Luntz has often seemed to manipulate focus groups to achieve a desired outcome.
So what do we think? We think Luntz has determined that Obama will win, so he let the focus group speak to that outcome. Hannity must be pissed.
DrLeoStrauss says
Aldershot, before listening to any spin last night, my take when turning off the set is that Obama won on style and points convincingly.
Anon says
Kissinger issues a triple flip non denial denial:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/26/1456431.aspx
Cato90025 says
Kissinger and lie in the same sentence–without a negative–say it aint so.
Palin so good looking? Maybe I am jaded in LA. Overall each preached to his respective choir. The undecided/swing voters probably were not swayed–at least objectively.
Comment says
Last point – we may be wrong, but we think
McCain’s visably annoyed ‘tude saying
that we should not admit to attacking
Pakistan (unless he decides to) has
limited resonance with the Hoagland-types
But it just reenforces McCain as wannabe
secret warmonger but hypocrite image
to the rest of the world
McCain conceded the possibility of attacking
Pak area – Obama was just up front
The FP community may give McCain points
but most people will side with
Obama
The polls say Obama won
Comment says
Pod has turned Commentary into a lightweight read – He adds zero to the intellectual defense of Israel and we’d guess he is a net negative to Israel because he offers embarassing arguments on her behalf – Not always. But very often.
Comment says
The second time we watched the debate was on c-span with the split screen – McCain smiled uncomfortably several times and snorted and laughed at the wrong times.
If Tweety hated McCain (which he may as time goes on) he could edit it just like he did with Gore.
Comment says
Podhoretz does not necessarily say what he means – He may think Obama won, but he will say otherwise – He has a whole neocon pose to maintain.
If he says positive things about McCain, it may be for reasons unknown.
He is a bit of a lightweight (intellectually) – so he
when he says “in that respect” – that’s his carve out –
Pod thinks McCain lost – You have to read into it.
Comment says
Since Obama took the establishment dodge on Georgia – that’s probably why Pat freaked – But we will have to see it ourselves.
Comment says
Obviously Kissinger will lie tomorrow to help McCain, but the documentary proof is so overwhleming in Obama’s favor —
We are somewhat puzzled that many pundits are missing how important McCain’s weak bailout response will undo a potential GOP insurgent victory on the bailout. Maybe we are too tunneled.
So McCain brags about his friendship with Kissinger for 35 years – hmmm – That is old.
People respect Kissinger – but they think he is a liar too – so tomorrow when he lies for McCain, it will only help Obama and it will erase Obama weaknesses.
Aldershot says
Perhaps, but as Podhoretz said:
“But it seems to me, based on what has actually been happening in this country over the past 96 hours, the only person who was really at risk in this debate was McCain. Since he said he wouldn’t leave Washington until there was a bailout deal, and then he did, and since his presence on Thursday itself became a controversial subject, a bad night for him — especially on the economy — might have been fatal. Instead, he put on a credible performance on the economy, and a powerful and commanding one on foreign policy.
The McCain on stage tonight is the McCain we’ve seen since the summer of 2007 — a candidate who seems able to draw on reserves of energy and focus just at those moments when he seems to have lost his footing and might be about to tumble off a cliff. In this respect, doing well in this debate was actually far more important for McCain than it was for Obama; his campaign was on the line, and Obama’s wasn’t.
In that respect, the existential respect, McCain really was the winner, because he lives to fight another day.”
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/jpodhoretz/33611
Comment says
We recently heard Palin on the radio and she was bad – but she is so good looking that it’s hard to notice on TV how bad she sounds.
We just saw Rudy cackling – which he does (watch the debate on split screen on c-span and McCain smiles every time he is pissed – It does not work any better than HRCs laugh) when he is lying. So we are confident our bias for Obama – which is not unconditional – is not confusing us. We think Obama gained tonight.
Aldershot says
Yeah, he screwed up not capitalizing on the bailout brouhaha.
I think Pat believes he won, AND he loves the Klondike Cutie.
Prediction: Palin will bomb, or at least look plain silly in the debate. There is way too much low/high expectations being set for Biden/Palin. By the end, the audience will be sympathizing with Biden for having to be so careful.
Comment says
Prediction: Obama won – and he will win the polls and spin – But when the Klondike Cutey whacks the Hairplug Pitbull, the media will swing back to McCain and it will be up to the last debate.
But recall – Kerry won the first debate HUGE and he won the second debate ok – But he lost
This is the opposite of what pundits say now
Gore destroyed Bush in debate one – but the media turned on him and put him on the defensive in debate two and then he lost the spin for both debates
Comment says
Did Pat really think McCain won – or more likely – he is love with the klondike Cute
Comment says
There were so many ways McCain could have demagogued Obama re Iran and Hezbollah – but he muffed it
Comment says
We stress McCain’s big mistake – which will haunt him later was his weak “Yeah” vote for the bailout
That was a body blow to the potential rogue/Newt strategy of playing against Bush and letting Pelosi walk the plank
Anon says
Aldershot likes Dick Morris – a weakness for rogues? j/k
Larison is pretty funny and on point:
http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/26/liveblogging-absurdity-3/
Aldershot says
I love Dick Morris…does that make me a bad person?
He looks like a televangelist.
Aldershot says
Hunter, re Palin, I think Brown protests too much.
Aldershot says
I saw the IED false intel claim a while back. But Iran funds Hez, etc.; why would they not be behind IEDs?
Russia has been installing sympathetic puppets in neighboring states, they’re no innocents. But I don’t think we should go crazy defending Georgia, and I don’t think Europe will vote them in because of energy concerns.
Cato90025 says
Did anyone notice McCain’s tie–was ita subliminal cue to provoke race. At least on my HDTV it looked like black and white stripes. I was thinking the power red was de rigeur.
Both had cringe inducing moments. Obama had many openings for attack that went unanswered.
Did not McCain vote against a bill for Vet benefits recently?
The Iran/IED link is also questionable and harks back to WMD intel.
And the same line on Russia’s aggression against Georgia–was weak.
Anon says
It’s funny to watch AL Hunt et al say McCain won on foreign policy points – Now for all we know McCain may have won with viewers, but Obama won on points – Unless, we missed that.
But the pundits are worried abou their own interest.
Btw = no one noticed Gore’s signs the first few nights after the debate – it was only when Tweety and Fox fixated on it
Aldershot says
Apparently M didn’t play well in the Luntz focus group, from the few comments made.
I guess I’m a big meanie…I thought M won…and so did Pat, so there!
Doc?
Anon says
OBama succeed in muddling his “without preconceptions” gaffe.
Anon says
Watching the establishment pundits on Charlie Rose – Hoagland tried to throw McCain some sage bones, but his heart isn’ in it – Byron York, who we always thought of as a phony is trying and failing to hold Obama’s collegiality against him.
Halperin says Obama won – so he is a reliable barometer of establishment spin and he does not like Obama – but he sees it in his interest to be in favor of Obama on the debate.
Anon says
Tweety
http://mediamatters.org/countyfair/200809260022?show=1
Comment says
Bear DNA is a legitimate state interest in Montana – McCain is playing off anti-intellectualism. A bad sign.
Comment says
The mains reason we think Obama won is due to the available repeat lines over the next week. McCain sort of sighed like Gore a few times – acvtually snorted – will Tweety notice?
But there were no classic Obama gaffes and as the news cycle moves back to Wall St you will see McCain’s sheepish Yeah vote reply
Comment says
Wee just tuned into FOX and Williams seemed to watch a different debate or maybe he is trying to protect his pundit ass.
Mccain’s “Barack doesn’t understand” line will not play well.
Aldershot says
The bear DNA joke fell flat.
Obama was visibly pissed, I think it was when M kept saying he didn’t understand about meeting without preconditions.
re Spain, M gave an excellent shot back, though.
They both really did well, I thought. I thought perhaps M would be off his game from being fatigued.
Now listen to Motormouth playing it his way…M was ‘hunched over.’
Comment says
Obama knows he won – or broke even
Comment says
McCain just lost it with his dis of Obama’s knowledge and judgement – He should not have articulated that belief. Obama just seems respectful but firm – and smarter.
Comment says
McCain looks nasty when he repeats Ahmadinejad stuff about stinking corpses – people just see an old man talking about corpses
Comment says
It was good that he mocked McCain about Spain.
Comment says
Obama did a good job on the Iran negotiating answer – but he could have added more instances of secret and semi scret Bush negotiations with Iran.
But don’t mention that Flynt Leverett Fax biz
Comment says
McCain just made an error about Gorby.
Comment says
Obama should have been more clear about the forked nature and the hidden bomb bomb bomb Iran agenda behind the Republican Guard vote.
Comment says
Pakistan is a wash – Obama probably wins on points – But does it matter? Pakistan is a looming disaster for either man – But it is good to see Obama softpeddle his prior hawkish bluster at CFR – Did Obama just mudddle his bracelet name? Or are we dreaming – That will be the Fox clip.
Comment says
McCain is on the record being pro Mushareff, so Obama better take him to school on Pakistan – McCain has a cocky look on his face – so Obama should really press him on Pakistan and make him angry.
Comment says
McCain is becoming animate via surge talk – Comment is too biased to see if it is working because we only hear McCain babbling.
Obama has corrected his major debate problem – his tendency to mumble in the beginning.
Comment says
Lehrer is doing a good job – it’s a serious debate and it’s good TV.
Comment says
Why is McCain not mocked for his DNA for bears line?
Comment says
One more thing – Obama should point out that Iran already befitted from the Iraq war.
Comment says
Obama has to hit back at this gov health care non-sense- McCain’s plan will force people into Medicaid – that is indisputable.
But Obama dropped the ball on that one – McCain would have been annoyed by the Medicaid charge and it would have angered him.
All Republicans think Obama wants National Health Care Soviet style and some Dems wish it were so. But Obama’s plan was not like that.
Anon says
Campbell Brown is a mystery woman.
Hunter says
An interesting opinion on Campbell Brown:
http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2008/09/campbell_brown_is_on_a_roll.php
from a [liberal, young, highly educated] girl from ‘the Heartland.’
Hunter says
Some inside talk for the insiders:
http://www.poe-news.com/forums/sp.php?pi=1001826704
My favorite line:
“John McCain had a remarkably bad day yesterday. It began with a desperate conference call in which his pollster tried to bluster away an ABC/W Post poll that showed him dropping 9 points back of Obama. It ended with David Letterman juggling his ripped off balls on the air while offering a squirming Keith Olbermann a bite.”
In case anyone here somehow managed to miss that exquisite moment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW6J_LwWGSY&feature=related
Train-wreck doesn’t even begin to describe this.
Aldershot says
I’m thinking that a shitload of negative karma is going to fall on McCain tonight.
Also, Nicolle Wallace is exceedingly annoying.
Comment says
Great stuff – watching Steny Hoyer on TV – he has not sounded this serious since the WMD threat from Iraq.
The CNBC hosts want him to proceed with out the Republicans